How to get frameGeometry without showing the window

Is there anyway to get the correct frameGeometry for a window for which show() has not yet been called? In general it seems that frameGeometry() == geometry() before a window is shown on the screen.

I don't want to call show() first and then move because it causes a noticeable flicker in the display.

Obviously I can just take some window (the first one I create) and remember the size of the borders and whatnot, but I really can't believe there isn't a standard QT way to do this. Is there one?

I'm using Qt 4.6.3, Windows 7, (K)Ubuntu 10.04.