QT Designer? Coding by hand?

[smacchia]

Regarding the designer crash:

Which version? 4.2.2 is the most up to date...

Yes, this version as well as 4.1 were the versions that crashed on my complex multitab dialog. I submitted the problem to Trolltech and was told it was fixed in 4.3. But as I said, I am leary of relying on tools that could be unstable.

2) IMHO, the code generated is rather ugly.

Hmm... Why?

Well because, for one thing, for each widget, it creates a giant class holding members for everything. And it can be difficult to decipher what is mandatory and what isn't. I just find it hard to read. But I guess if your using the designer exclusively, this doesn't matter.

3) I like to build on re-usable tools that make hand coding easier and faster

Oh, I have to agree with you on that - me too. That's why I use designer to make hand coding easier and faster as I don't have to code all the widgets and layouts and their properties by hand.

But, I found it a bit painful to create my own re-usable widgets from within the designer. Its just faster and easier for me to do it by hand.

Have you tried using stylesheets?

Yes & no. I've used a combination where it makes sense. There are so many "company" colors for various states, etc, that I have created a singleton for the different palettes and colors. This is almost as easy to change as a style sheet. Then my custom widgets derivations, for say pushbuttons, set the palette depending on the state, calling on the singleton for the specific palette. I found when using the stylesheet for pushbuttons, I lost the platform specific style. And in combo boxes, using the palette didn't colorize the menu for all L/F, so a style sheet worked well there. Hence the combinatory (is that a word?) approach.

[wysota]

But as I said, I am leary of relying on tools that could be unstable.

If the problem was fixed then what's so unstable with it? Applications have bugs, you know... there is nothing unusual in it. Bugs get fixed (introducing new bugs of course.... ) and stability improves.

Well because, for one thing, for each widget, it creates a giant class holding members for everything. And it can be difficult to decipher what is mandatory and what isn't.

The class is private, so what difference does it make? How do you code your hierarchy of widgets? In a hierarchy of classes? How would you code a QWidget having a QGroupBox with three checkboxes and a push button (sibling to QGroupBox)?

I just find it hard to read. But I guess if your using the designer exclusively, this doesn't matter.

Why read it? You can incorporate every change you may require in the implementation class (derived from QWidget or one of its descendants) not even touching the ui class.

But, I found it a bit painful to create my own re-usable widgets from within the designer. Its just faster and easier for me to do it by hand.

The disadvantage of such approach which you can't deny is that the UI has to be created by the programmer and not by a designer (meant as a person that sits all day and places buttons on forms) - every change to the design of the form has to be made by a programmer. This is not the case when using Designer. As long as you don't remove items which are referenced in the implementation class, the programmer doesn't have to do anything to have a working application.

Yes & no. I've used a combination where it makes sense. There are so many "company" colors for various states, etc, that I have created a singleton for the different palettes and colors.

It's like setting a stylesheet for the QApplication object.

This is almost as easy to change as a style sheet.

Yeah, almost Ever tried to get a coloured pushbutton on both WindowsXP style and Plastique with the use of palette? The same goes with many other widgets, like comboboxes - different styles use different palette roles to render the same parts of widgets.

Then my custom widgets derivations, for say pushbuttons, set the palette depending on the state, calling on the singleton for the specific palette. I found when using the stylesheet for pushbuttons, I lost the platform specific style.

Hmm... maybe you didn't use the sheet correctly? If you want a coloured pushbutton on WindowsXP or MacOS, you can't rely on the platform specific style and Qt handles that situation by itself. If you don't want the button to be coloured, the platform specific style should be maintained.

[smacchia]

If the problem was fixed then what's so unstable with it? Applications have bugs, you know... there is nothing unusual in it. Bugs get fixed (introducing new bugs of course.... ) and stability improves.

Perhaps, but 4.3 is also not officially out (AFAIK). And since it was broke, I had to continue development, which meant switching to hand coding. Once I switched, I decided to stay. Many of the developers here have experience with other 3rd party ui design tools and none liked the result. So even if designer is good, there is a prejudice here. I'm not saying that I wouldn't try it again for certain purposes, but I can't speak for the rest of the team here. Time will tell, we are just starting this project and I am the primary/lead on it at this point.

The class is private, so what difference does it make? How do you code your hierarchy of widgets? In a hierarchy of classes? How would you code a QWidget having a QGroupBox with three checkboxes and a push button (sibling to QGroupBox)?

It depends on how it would be used, how general purpose it is, and how long I'd have to maintain it.

Why read it? You can incorporate every change you may require in the implementation class (derived from QWidget or one of its descendants) not even touching the ui class.

True. I still prefer hand coding, what can I say?

The disadvantage of such approach which you can't deny is that the UI has to be created by the programmer and not by a designer (meant as a person that sits all day and places buttons on forms) - every change to the design of the form has to be made by a programmer. This is not the case when using Designer. As long as you don't remove items which are referenced in the implementation class, the programmer doesn't have to do anything to have a working application.

Of course, but only developers/programmers are going to muck with it anyway (at least around here). And when I used the designer, I have to say I was SO bored Still, as with all tools, it can be useful and can be used when the situation fits IMHO.

There are so many "company" colors for various states, etc, that I have created a singleton for the different palettes and colors..

It's like setting a stylesheet for the QApplication object.

Not quite, but almost. This is because, there are different colors for buttons, for example, not only in and of themselves, but depending on "where" they are in the application. The QApplication pallete isn't sufficient. And it needs to be swapped depending on the context. This is true for many other controls and areas of the application. The singleton contains all the palletes for all the contexts.

This is almost as easy to change as a style sheet.

Ever tried to get a coloured pushbutton on both WindowsXP style and Plastique with the use of palette? The same goes with many other widgets, like comboboxes - different styles use different palette roles to render the same parts of widgets.

No, I don't have access to WinXP style, but I did successfully get the same color in all the styles available on Linux. It was pretty easy. We're not porting to Windows anyway.

Hmm... maybe you didn't use the sheet correctly? If you want a coloured pushbutton on WindowsXP or MacOS, you can't rely on the platform specific style and Qt handles that situation by itself. If you don't want the button to be coloured, the platform specific style should be maintained.

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say "and Qt handles that situation by itself". When I set the style for a pushbutton's background only, it was flat. I think I have to set all of the other attributes and then it isn't in the platform style, AFAIK. All I wanted was to change the color, but have it have the shape and feel of the style (be it plastique, windows, mac...). Frankly it was easier to use a palette...but you're right, perhaps my lack of experience here is showing

[wysota]

Perhaps, but 4.3 is also not officially out (AFAIK). And since it was broke, I had to continue development, which meant switching to hand coding. Once I switched, I decided to stay.

You could always use custom widgets to "hide" part of the form that causes trouble (I understand the problem was the complexity of the design).

Of course, but only developers/programmers are going to muck with it anyway (at least around here). And when I used the designer, I have to say I was SO bored Still, as with all tools, it can be useful and can be used when the situation fits IMHO.

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say "and Qt handles that situation by itself".

AFAIK it changes the style of the button.